allie1964
Best of Breed
Posts:426
 | | 12/13/2007 8:20 PM |
| | This looks really scary I cant believe it !!!!!! I would never ever put this on my dog !!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Crown-Collar-LARGE-21/dp/B000RIAJM4/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1197598659&sr=1-17 | | | |
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cathyam76
Best of Breed
Posts:385
| | 12/13/2007 8:47 PM |
| | OH MY!!! That does look scary! I noticed the advertisement never mentions what the product is made of. Sheesh. | | | |
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UBS_Mom
Best in Show
Posts:1970
| | 12/13/2007 9:57 PM |
| I like how under features it says "enhances communication between you & your dog"....really?
I think it says- "here's some abuse, fear me, then become defensive, then aggressive" ...
Unc & Blu want to know what a collar is.... they only wear "going out and about" neckware when necessary .. | | | |
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DPFrank
Best of Breed
Posts:386
| | 12/14/2007 6:57 AM |
| | This collar along with the pinch collar when used correctly as a training tool not a management tool is the most humane collar for training. There's virtualy no pressure on the dogs neck because the amount of "correction" needed is a fraction of that in a choker or flat collar. These collars are not for putting on the dog and letting him pull. It's for teaching clearity in the heel position ( as well as other desired obedience behaviors) with out compromising the health of the dogs neck.Chokers are dangerous as well as any non training collar like a flat collar. They cause neck trauma as well as wind pipe problems.Trust me, I've been using these collars for years with no health issues to the dog. Below is a link that will enlighten everyone on the pinch collar. I'd be happy to discuss this with anyone intersted in training.
A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:
100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.
http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html#AStudy | | | |
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UBS_Mom
Best in Show
Posts:1970
| | 12/14/2007 7:10 AM |
| | Frank,
How many people (in your opinion) who buy that collar are going to use it as "just" a training tool? Lots of people out there who AREN'T going to take their dogs to a professional like you, just like with the regular choke chains you see way too often on dogs...and jut like the dogs you see pulling people down the street with a flat collar that later end up with the aforementioned wind pipe problem... | | | |
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DPFrank
Best of Breed
Posts:386
| | 12/14/2007 7:18 AM |
| | UBS
I agree the collar should be used with a professional and it possibly should have a disclaimer on the packaging.Like many things that cross our paths in life, things are used incorrectly.My point to the post was that these collars are not bad, they are very effective as well as safe dispite their " midieval" look.
Funny how the pet warehouse trainers slam the collar but they sell it in aisle 3!!
I'd be happy to help anyone on AA with dog issues as I have done for many in the past.I'll post my website where you can email or call me anytme.
www.dpdogtraining.com | | | |
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PedigreeChallenged
Best in Group
Posts:1001
| | 12/14/2007 7:33 AM |
| Frank - I appreciate the help and advice you've given people on this site. It's nice having somone with the knowledge and experience help us out.
Just wanted to say THANKS!!! | | | |
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Newfs
Posts:0
| | 12/14/2007 7:56 AM |
| I'am glad Frank clarified the collar
Because both my Newfs were professionally trained with a "prong collar". The one in the picture just looks like a odd version of the standard prong collar. The prong collar doesn't hurt them if fitted correctly. My dogs learned to both walk beautifully, both to the left of me, side by side no pulling, no tugging....When they were training with the prong collar, I use to call it my "cruise control", because it is an amazing teaching tool. I see people around here walking dogs that don't even weigh 50 pounds, pulling their owners all over the place, and I walk down the street with 300 + pounds of 2 dogs by my side, with the leashes slack.
When my dogs are in the house or on the property they "never" have any collar on. | | | |
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DPFrank
Best of Breed
Posts:386
| | 12/14/2007 9:14 AM |
| | The collar pictured by Allie is the plastic version of the pinch collar. It doesn't have the same action. I use this collar on very soft and most smaill dogs. | | | |
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UBS_Mom
Best in Show
Posts:1970
| | 12/14/2007 9:21 AM |
| I too am happy to have Frank on the site and many of us have turned to him with our doggie "issues" 
I'm just extremely lucky to have the type of dogs that were absolutely seamless as far as training goes..
still looks painful though | | | |
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mightymite
Champion
Posts:7
| | 12/14/2007 10:49 AM |
| | I am a part time professional dog trainer and a member of APDT. While, for the most part, with my own dogs I clicker train and use various positive (as term of art) training techniques, I do find that my ability to work with other people's dogs is constrained by what the owners are 1)able 2) willing and 3) capable of putting into their training. If I tell a client that he/she should crate train, and he/she is unwilling to put his/her dog in a "cage" then I hae to resort to a "Plan b" that will help him or her control and constrain her dogs inappropriate behaviors. Sometimes, it comes down to making choices for overall benefit of a dog.
So when it comes to prong and choke collars I'll say this:
This a better alternative than either called a martingale collar. However, for a dog who has been allowed to pull and never taught how to walk properly on a leash, the latter types of collars give an immediate check. Both are used inappropriately by people and both should be given to a pet owner with explicit instructions on how to and how not to use them. Same thing can be said with head halters. Despite their claim at being more "gentle" they can actually do cervical damage if not used properly.
My first choice would be to have a dog trained to heal using a clicker and a target stick. However, with proper guidance, a "crutch" = picked based on the temperment, size and breed of the dog as well as the handler (petite woman would do better with a prong, for example, then with a choke. Conversely, I saw a man one day walking down the street with a Golden on a prong. The man was absent mindedly swinging the arm attached to the dog's neck - correcting and correcting and correcting oblivious to what he was doing to his dog). | | | |
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cosnowflake
Best of Breed
Posts:250
| | 12/14/2007 11:17 AM |
| | speaking of martingale collars, those are what i buy for my dog. when i got him he had been abused and loud noises were very scary and he sometimes would slip out of a regular collar. this one stays on a lot better and is still loose...i have also heard martingales called greyhound collars too.
i also have to say i am thankful that Frank and mightymite and others share their useful info. with us to make us even more knowledgeable pet owners | | | |
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DPFrank
Best of Breed
Posts:386
| | 12/14/2007 6:35 PM |
| | Equipement should be decided according to the dogs Temperament and basic character, not size or breed. Very soft dogs that generally respond to light corrections can get away with a non-training collar.
Dogs that have shown handler aggression due to poor training techniques can respond negitivly to ANY compulsion regardless of the collar.
The action of the Martingale collar is the same as the good dog collar or the pinch collar with the exception of that it's still a flat collar on the wind pipe. If you only need a light correction to get the dog to refocus on a command he knows but does not perform, fine., But if you need a med level correction, then personally I wouldn't use that type of collar.Remember the rules of correction. They should only be used on commands that the dog has clarity on. And they should be light as possible, but firm enough for the dog to refocus on you and the command. | | | |
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cosnowflake
Best of Breed
Posts:250
| | 12/14/2007 8:43 PM |
| | you are so right Frank!!
I just wish that so many other dog owners understood the meanings of different collars and their uses.
ok , so I have a question...what do you do when you see a neighbor in the city with two lanes in each direction that are busy a block away, with a dog without a collar and leash. do you say something?
Some of these people even proclam the fact that they can - so far- walk their dogs without a leash and collar on the said busy street.
it worries me because now, even though I am almost certain that my dog would not leave my side, I still worry about what he might see when approaching a busy street.
Some of these dogs without leashes are friends of his, and nevertheless, their situation worries me. | | | |
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DPFrank
Best of Breed
Posts:386
| | 12/14/2007 10:24 PM |
| | My dogs are never without a leash in public. I love 'em too much to take any chances. | | | |
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